tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post5767463530115081496..comments2024-03-23T17:14:41.884+01:00Comments on pitfalls of spirituality: Obedience & groupthink: the Sahaj Marg examplefranka waaldijkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09469775707351652635noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-17858325873732388072012-12-28T19:13:56.766+01:002012-12-28T19:13:56.766+01:00The increase of faith and consequent constant reme...The increase of faith and consequent constant remembrance of the Guru is the growth path of spirituality. How can a result be an initial requirement? AjayShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11993575857720194168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-57341924031067525242010-08-09T04:14:21.715+02:002010-08-09T04:14:21.715+02:00My experience is he performs blackmagic on abhyasi...My experience is he performs blackmagic on abhyasis, in numerous forms, when he feels followers are not dogs and it could be in many forms like manupulating of mind as on many occassions says i will speak my mind.It is most disastrous power he possess. And it could be warning in dreams about negative future and making it happen. Another trick of him is transmitting energy which every one can feel which will effecting one's health. So every one be careful of the blackmagic and if you there dont forget to eulogise him along with liberated souls so that he does not harm you. If any one feels abnormal change in mind then dont think it is samskara as ever one will tell, instead leave chariji as he is doing to teach? lesson. <br />Beaware of blackmagicianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-66582025930530330282009-02-23T00:22:00.000+01:002009-02-23T00:22:00.000+01:00i illustrate this post on obedience & groupthi...i illustrate this post on <I>obedience & groupthink: the sahaj marg example</I> with yet another example shedding light on the practical interpretation of truthfulness in sahaj marg.<BR/><BR/>please read the following excerpt from the srcm website, it is meant as an introduction for people interested in beginning the practice of sahaj marg:<BR/><BR/><I>`Chariji has often explained that the use of the word "master" in Sahaj Marg has nothing to do with some external hierarchical relationship, in which one person acts like a "boss" whose every order must be obeyed, and all others are mere lowly slaves.<BR/><BR/>In fact, Sahaj Marg Masters rarely give direct orders to others, and then only to advanced abhyasis, or when absolutely necessary. Instead, they tend to give subtle hints or general suggestions. Masters, as Babuji always insisted, come not to rule, but only to serve.'<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>you can easily compare the above statement with the recent speeches on obedience given by chari...and then i wonder if anyone can reconcile these statements?<BR/><BR/>so for newcomers in the beginning, this whole obedience thing is downplayed, minimized, and the sahaj marg master is presented as a guide, a servant even, whereas the real master is inside you.<BR/><BR/>i wonder why they are not told from the outset that <BR/><BR/><I>`Totally unquestioning obedience is the only requirement of this spiritual way that I know, Sahaj Marg. The moment you start asking questions, it is implicit that you are questioning the wisdom of your Master, the intentions of your Master and his existence itself - never done, except at the peril of your own evolution.'</I> (quote from chari's speech)<BR/><BR/>...?franka waaldijkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09469775707351652635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-45484458393168190512009-02-20T14:18:00.000+01:002009-02-20T14:18:00.000+01:00theo, remember my reply to your comment on the pre...theo, remember my reply to your comment on the previous post? i said that a Leader hammering on obedience is a sure sign of problems with discipline, problems within the organization.<BR/><BR/>so a few days later it was funny for me to come across the following fragments of a recent speech by chari tot the zonals-in-charge <A HREF="http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/2009/02/le-besoin-de-discipline-personnelle.html" REL="nofollow">here on elodie's blog</A>. i will repeat it below, it illustrates our discussion perfectly.<BR/><BR/><B>chari's speech to zonals-in-charge</B>, manapakkam 10 january 2009<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>"We have been very carefully selecting people to be preceptors, but more and more I find that in an anxiety to fill the panel saying in Gujarat, or in Andhra Pradesh or in Punjab, we are recommending people who would not be normally acceptable. This is one main cause of indiscipline. They don’t work, so we have a full list of preceptors running into thousands, and I don’t know whether even half of them are really working. (…) with two thousand six hundred preceptors, we should be able to grow without more preceptors (…).It should not be necessary for me to make two preceptors a day, continuously every day. It only means — I mean I could understand it if I see the quality rising. But like the recent incident in Nagpur: a preceptor manhandling an abhyasi; the classic case of Kanpur which has been a thorn in Babuji’s flesh ever since I joined the Mission. Kanpur was always a problem. It continues to be a problem. Why? What is wrong that these places do not change? There are other centres I don’t want to mention. Bombay centre: I don’t see any growth. We have so many preceptors there (…).Small centres have been literally blackmailing the organization by buying among themselves the land, and then saying, “You have to accept this now,” without permission, without approval. It is a very serious legal problem. Who is going to manage this?<BR/>You know, sometimes in my nightmares I see the Mission breaking up, and there will be two hundred and forty Shri Ram Chandra Missions: Haldoi, one; Gorakhpur centre, another Mission; Tiplur in Maharashtra. We have had a problem in Thrissur centre in Kerala state. Serious disciplinary problems — people refusing to go to a place for satsangh. It’s easy to say, “You are no longer abhyasis.” They will start a new centre, and you will have one more group sitting by itself. Karnataka started this unhappy episode. We have several groups in Karnataka, all claiming to be Babuji’s favourite centres — not with the Mission (…).Discipline has to be instilled from the beginning. I know nowadays preceptors give sittings to new abhyasis, you know, helter-skelter: one in the morning, one in the evening, next tomorrow morning, and they are abhyasis. They are not spoken to, they are not told about the Mission. They are not explained the philosophy, nor are they told what are the disciplinary requirements. That is why the Mission is growing so fast (…) So I wonder what has been my failure, that this is the result of the Mission today. (…) Let us come to the physical problems: non-attendance, linguistic chauvinism, you know. And during presence in the satsangh, half the people with their eyes open, cell phones ringing even here in Manapakkam. And when I have spoken two or three times, they put it on vibration mode, and when their thigh vibrates, they just look at it to note the number and… I know this is happening. I know it is happening in every centre (…).So discipline has to be personal. Each person has to be disciplined. It’s not enough to have a police force acting, you know. It is not enough (…).So, you see, discipline is the order of the day. Otherwise, you know what happens when there is uncontrolled growth of cells in the human body: it is cancer. And cancer means death, as we all know. If our organization is growing like that, as I seem to think it is, it is a cancerous growth: unguided, unprincipled, disobedient. (…) Too many of us are just sitting quiet, saying that Babuji’s will will prevail but Babuji has said his will can prevail only when we execute his will. When he passed away and I had to take charge, we have seen how much his will prevailed: when all the preceptors of those times refused to obey his nomination, and many had to be sacked out of hand. And many left because they were not approving what I did. There was every chance that when I became the President, this Mission would disintegrate, because there were powerful preceptors from Babuji’s times. (…)"<BR/></I>franka waaldijkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09469775707351652635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-67448564955894199872009-02-10T06:16:00.000+01:002009-02-10T06:16:00.000+01:00I wiggle my tail while reading this. Can dogs read...I wiggle my tail while reading this. Can dogs read?<BR/><BR/>TheoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5331174529704013132.post-10106897043537578422009-02-08T00:11:00.000+01:002009-02-08T00:11:00.000+01:00on elodie's blog i found this reference to more sa...on <A HREF="http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">elodie's blog</A> i found this reference to more sahaj marg texts on obedience:<BR/><BR/>http://www.sahajmarg.org/smrti/education/publications/salfeatures/series4/obedience/obedience4.html<BR/><BR/>let me just examine one more fragment:<BR/><BR/><I>`We must have the attitude of the dog, love for the Master, faith in the Master, obedience of the Master. This is what an abhyasi is expected to have. We must become as if we are the perfect dog before Him. It eats when he gives it food. The perfect dog eats only when the master feeds it. If a stranger comes and gives something, it will not take. If the Master says "sit" and he goes away, three days later it must still be sitting there. When he says "come", it goes with him. It does not ask, "Where are you going? Why are you going? When will we come back home?" '</I><BR/><BR/>so, this type of text has always struck me as glaringly at odds with the supposed purpose of babuji, namely to create spiritual masters. <BR/><BR/>but there is a related interesting conclusion that i drew early on, during the time when i practiced sahaj marg. a conclusion based on personal experience.<BR/><BR/>i have been lucky to know some very special dogs. in terms of `heart', i often doubt that humans can compete with the steadfast love that a dog has for its human companions.<BR/><BR/>in fact, i don't see where to find a more trustworthy and (mostly) obedient, heartful creature than a dog. dogs are usually quite intelligent, and some can be amazingly intelligent.<BR/><BR/>if in chari's speeches one would fill in `dog', then it becomes obvious that dogs are the best abhyasis ever.<BR/><BR/>except for one little snag. a dog will never be a spiritual master, at least i don't think so. <BR/><BR/>this then reveals that there is a distinction between master and the common abhyasi. this distinction was <B>explicit</B> in babuji's time, but only known to a small inner circle of <B>initiated</B> associates, like chari and chari's father who was a senior official in the mission.<BR/><BR/>you read correctly: initiation was a closely held secret. but chari's father at one time chose to let this secret out in the open. this created commotion, and chari was very against it. you can read all about this in chari's diaries' publication called `in his footsteps'.<BR/><BR/>now let me turn to maxim 5 (you know from the 10 maxims of babuji) which starts out very clearly with:<BR/><BR/><B>be truthful</B><BR/><BR/>if you can rhyme this maxim with the existence of a secret initiation of close associates, then i have no doubt you can make the square root of 2 to be equal to pi as well.<BR/><BR/>######<BR/><BR/>so forget obedience. look for truth. real personal truth, not some cooked-up version serving other people's goals. dare to be a human being, instead of doing a poor imitation of a dog. you could always ponder the question:<BR/><BR/><I>if god had meant us to be doglike, then why not stick with dogs in the first place?</I><BR/><BR/>what then is the most distinguishing difference between dog and human? is it heart...or is it mind?<BR/><BR/>wouldn't that give a hint of what god was looking for when creating us?<BR/><BR/>just a simple question, it seems. but you now know that i sacrificed several of my lives just to pose it to you! so you see my noble, selfsacrificing attitude with this blog. i could have been liberated long ago, if i had just wagged my tail at my master!franka waaldijkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09469775707351652635noreply@blogger.com